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January 30, 2017 /
Brew Local, Act global

Could even extractions save the industry? Yes. Sort Of.

This is a condensed version of a talk I gave in Shanghai and Taipei last year for Tamper Tantrum. If you’d like to see the original – where I talk about extraction and include some more detail – head here. I was lucky enough to present alongside James Hoffman, Brian W. Jones, Aida Batlle, Kim Elena Ionescu, Stephen Leighton and Brandon Loper. Enjoy!

I highly recommend spending some time sifting through the Tamper Tantrum Archives. There’s some great content in there from some of the coffee industry’s best and brightest!

Let me know what you think of the format shakeup below. I’m all ears!

 

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Isaac
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Isaac

Intriguing video, though somewhat lacking in explaining just how these savings are made. Eveness is certainly a good thing, as is maximising yields and profits, so let’s share how it’s done! An example of “with a more even extraction, baristas could pull better tasting shots using 20% less coffee in the basket” or similar would clear it up, I think.

Dean Mercer
Guest
Dean Mercer

Totally agree, Matt. Wastage of any form is inefficient and costly. Definitely dislike dialing in of a morning, especially with an expensive single origin. Any tips to improve that process on a Mazzer? Can’t say I have ever liked Maths until I became a barista though!

Daniel Laurence
Guest
Daniel Laurence

Love it Matt. Everybody wins!

Isaac
Guest
Isaac

Understood! I look forward to seeing it fleshed out. The video format is a winner, in my opinion. It was a great start to the day, plugging in at work and watching whilst enjoying my first coffee.

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

I’d love to cover my first year’s worth of material in one video, but it’d be 5 hours long and way too detailed. This is why I’m doing snippets weekly 🙂 lots of ‘how to’ coming up!

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

Yeah I guess it’s two sides of a coin. You can say ‘make more cups, use same amount of coffee’ or ‘make the same number of cups, use less coffee’. Same thing. I chose the former because people listen for $$$.

Ernest
Guest
Ernest

Hey Matt, Interesting video and a great share. Increasing extraction yields is definitely something that all baristas should strive for. However, I have a scenario in my head that I would like to share with you. Say you increase your extraction yields, via the examples you have given. So now the cafe could potentially make 2,750 cups of coffee. Now that extra 250 cups that could be made does not necessarily mean it will be sold. Also, now that they’ve increased extraction yield, hence they would use less coffee. What that would equate to would be buying less coffee, lowering… Read more »

Marcus_Bunker
Guest
Marcus_Bunker

Thanks again Matt. Personally prefer reading the posts rather than video. Easier to go back and reference as well.

Increasing efficiency like this is always a winner. For anyone struggling with the concept this may help…

– even 20% extraction of 18g dose = 3.6g of dissolved coffee in your cup
– uneven 16% extraction of 22g dose = 3.52g of dissolved coffee in your cup

Use 4g less coffee, end up with a similar strength drink, that is also tastier and save roughly 18%.

Marc
Guest
Marc

We recently switched using a Robur E to an EK43 for our singles. We’ve noticed you can easily pre dose as you go. During the dial in, since you waste much less time figuring out the correct grind setting, you have a lot of time to spare to weigh out 30 doses or so, I work in a busy take away bar and that amount easily gets us through the morning rush, then if need be we dose more when we have time. So for us there is no need to stay back for an hour to pre dose, which… Read more »

Marc
Guest
Marc

Hey Matt,
Such a great topic, just watched the entire presentation on tamper tantrum. I was wondering what did Stephen Leighton disagree with you about? Just curious.

Thank you again for this great wealth of knowledge

Ben
Guest
Ben

The cost of an EK43 plus 2 man hours of weighing each individual dose should be balanced out by the savings from extracting more (and not having to purge grinders), plus you get a better cup of coffee, right? But are we actually using less coffee, or just getting a tastier cup? Side note: how long before ground coffee starts to lose its potential? This question was borne from watching Brewers Cup where competitors must pre prepare their coffee grinds and it must be at least 10 minutes before they brew. I suppose all competitors have the same conditions but… Read more »

Ben
Guest
Ben

So 3 mins vs 30 mins after grinding isn’t going to make much difference to taste? I’m asking so that particularly if you have a grinder with “dead space”, if you’re not changing the grind size, after how long should you purge old grinds in the dead space? (acting globally to reduce wastage 😉 )

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

Mazzer’s are killer for the wastage. So bad.

Marc
Guest
Marc

I would’ve loved to have been a fly on the wall.

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

You’re getting both!

side note: I’ve had great coffee hours after grinding. For brewers cup they only pre-grind so they don’t have to use the sponsor grinder.

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

Thank you! If I recall correctly, he was disagreeing about stirring pour overs. To which I debated with furious intensity 🙂

Dean Mercer
Guest
Dean Mercer

Need a massive upgrade to an EK then! Or a brand new design that combines volume/speed of a Mazzer with the accuracy of the EK….

Marc
Guest
Marc

Single Origin Roasters in Sydney

Ben
Guest
Ben

That’s great, where do you work?

Ben
Guest
Ben

I’ve just been stirring my pourovers over the last 2 days and was able to get sweetness and in the middle of the under/over extracted road that I have not been able to achieve before. I also poured in the entire amount of water in one go after the bloom to keep temperature more stable which also seems to have helped.

Matt, I know you will cover this in future hustles, but can you at least reveal if your pourover technique is a lot different to the one on your blog, the one with the great Frank Ocean track?

Tanner
Guest
Tanner

Hey Ben, you mind if I ask what parameters you guys start with? I have an EK, but there’s not a lot of resources online, and there’s no one near me that’s doing this so it’s hard to know if it’s going in the wrong direction or just not there yet. Right now I’m at 20g in / 52 out over 25 seconds. Not as tasty as I’d like and really fast pulls. I’m using 1.2 on the EK, 18g VST baskets, 9bars and 199.8 F water temp. PS. I’m in the states, but I follow what Single O is… Read more »

Peter Watkins
Guest
Peter Watkins

Hello Matt. Just watched the video and it’s put together really well. However, the math might need looking at for potential coffee shop savings. If you reduce you dose by .02g you can make more coffee with the same amount of beans but it won’t help you sell any more coffee. Makes the 50k revenue addition more like 7k in cos savings – but I guess the bigger number helps make your point. (that 7k might be the profit of 50k more sales anyway …)

Martin Jeffery
Guest
Martin Jeffery

Yep been doing this with chemex , small bloom , mini whisk stir , rest fo the 500g water in one go.. Leave to draw down. Less fuss , more tasty…

Earlgrey_coldbrew0522
Guest
Earlgrey_coldbrew0522

Interesting Matt. I enjoyed watching the video. Definitely condensed. I could say it is informative however, it felt like there were few bits missing compared with the written format which always felt so packed and heavy with info. Not saying I’m against the video, makes comprehension a lot faster, I think. I also agree with one comment below that said the written one makes it easier to go back to the notes and reread it. I do that as well. In my opinion, it will be nice if we will have a written that is chock full of information and… Read more »

Ben
Guest
Ben

farhan
Guest
farhan

I had similar problems too! have you tried using beans from other roasters? i find that only some of my local roasters beans work well ok the ek.

Ben
Guest
Ben

I think you mean Marc, I don’t have an EK!

Tanner
Guest
Tanner

Sorry Marc, I meant Ben!

Steven
Guest
Steven

Marc, I’ve been having the same struggles and frustrations about lack of online resources/discussion for how people are having success with this. I’m hoping Matt can chime in here. A few things to try maybe (just based on things we’ve been trying at our cafe): lower your pump pressure to around 7 bars, preinfuse if you can for (whatever amount is appropriate to the coffee you are brewing), re-calibrate your burr set a little tighter to achieve more range (Mahlkonig told us they can go a lot tighter than you might expect), and work with coffees specifically calibrated roast-wise to… Read more »

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

Yeah so I had a few choices on how I presented those numbers. I chose increased sales because I strongly believe (and have experienced that) cafes who move to even extractions gain sales volume. I was also careful to make sure I said sales rather than profit 🙂 hope that helps!

Mikael Jasin
Guest
Mikael Jasin

Hi Tanner, we use an EK for our Black Blend and SIngles (from Smallbatch Roast and Codeblack in Melbourne). We normally start from 20g Dose, Around 56-62g Yield in about 24-28s. Using 20g VST baskets (so you don’t overpacked or have too much headroom), 94C water temp and around 1 o’clock to 2 o’clock on the EK grind settings. Then using a refractometer try to get around 7% TDS and 21% Extraction Yield (which we find work best with our coffee). From there, we normally use taste (or whichever barista not hungover that day ;p) to determine which dial in… Read more »

Ana Victoria Mallozzi
Guest
Ana Victoria Mallozzi

Loved this ! Interesting concept I had never thought about!

Matt Perger
Guest
Matt Perger

Thank you! I think a combo would be great as well, similar to podcasts publishing transcripts below the episode.

Tanner
Guest
Tanner

This is a ton of help, thanks!

Mikael Jasin
Guest
Mikael Jasin

We too “zeroed” the burrs like the Manual says and I went about 20-30 degrees back from the rattle before I tighten the bolts. However, we do use nutation (a lot of discussions on this I know, plus We’re using a GB5 so we can’t really adjust the pressure as we go) so that we can go slightly coarser but still reach that intended extraction yield % as we generally find that shots from grind setting close to 3 o’clock are pretty dry. Having said that, I’ve had great coffees from a non nutated EK espressos in other places in… Read more »

Tanner
Guest
Tanner

Hey thanks Mikael! You mind me asking how you have your EK set up? I haven’t been able to get it to pull reliable espresso shots even at fully closed. I’ve adjusted the burrs just a hair back from the metal rattle (like the Malkhonig manual says), and can’t really go much finer without getting the rattle.

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